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1994-08-27
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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 05:57 BST-1
From: Ofir Gal <ogal@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Proposal v5
To: gem-list@world.std.com
Message-Id: <memo.343332@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk
In message <9406090818.AA02626@math.uni-muenster.de>, reschke@math.uni-muenster.de said:
>
>>
>> A>Nearly all German programs use CTRL-M instead of Shift-CTRL-S (CTRL-M
>> A>is the 'German standard' published in Profibuch). I don't know the way
>> A>it is handled in other countrys. Shift-CTRL-S is more logical, but I
>> A>think we should follow existing standards as close as possible.
>>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong ;-), but the basic idea of this Gem-List is to
>> create a new standard for all applications, isn't it? Certainly the new
>
>No, it isn't.
The idea is to find common ground between the two existing standards - the
German one and the American (Atari dev docs/Compendium). I tend to go with
the German standard as much as possible, but in the case of Save As, I
think Shift+CTRL+S is a good idea.
>> SC for "Save as..." will be a litttle bit irritating for some users but
>> it's more logical. And after some time everybody will use the new SC.
>
>Nope. First of all, there are a *lot* of applications that aren't supported
>nowadays. And even for those which are still in development, it's hard to
>tell your customers, why they should have to switch to new shortcuts, when
>they are used to the current set since years.
I will personally have no problem if all apps changed to the new standard.
The changes will be minor for most good German programs, a little more work
for the rest of us. Applications that are not supported anymore are only a
minor concern, we still have many good programs being developed (like
your CD Tools, Julian :-). The authors of many of them are on the list and
will be able to vote against my proposal if they wish.
Many old programs don't follow any guidelines anyway. If the profibuch was
translated to English a few years back, then we wouldn't need this
discussion now.
>I thought that the idea of his proposal is more POSIX-like. Not to *change*
>existing practice, but to document it. I doubt that any major developer
>will change his existing code just to make the readers of this list happy.
It is more or less that, but please keep an open mind. In the case of
CTRL+M I suggest to leave CTRL+M undefined so that programmers could
respond to both Shift+CTRL+S and CTRL+M if they wish to make a more
gradual move.
Even the so called German standard is not that well defined - CTRL+I in
Everest selects a word, in Kobold it shows Object Info, in Papyrus it does
something else (I forget what) and the list goes on.
I believe a good standard, followed by many programmers, will help our
small and declining market. The inconsistency of keyboard shortcuts is
simply a pain for users.
In message <9406091125.AA09244@cscd4c14.caledonia.hw.ac.uk>, ceebsm@caledonia.hw.ac.uk said:
>
>Anyway, just my opinion. Could we maybe get a vote as to whether we keep
>CTRL+A in the standard so as to stop all the "For" & "Against" CTRL+A
>mails????
No, CTRL+A is not open for discussion. It is a standard already and I wish
millert will stop nagging us about it. Going by responses to this idea of
his, a vote will be a waste of time.
Bye,
Ofir ogal@cix.compulink.co.uk